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Firlefanz
Senior Member
Registered: 05-2003
Location: Germany
Posts: 560
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Re: Is there any special meaning behind the number 12?
I think that "moons" are a pretty good explanation. Imagine a neolithic society where people have to come up with a way to predict seasons - for planting, harvesting and such. Maybe even earlier, hunter and gatherer societies kept track of the moon in order to predict the seasons when animals migrated or when to expect winter.
I can see how the number twelve could have been very important in earlier societies, and maybe important enough to gain special significance. And most examples that Alpha gave, point back to agrarian societies, at least.
--- - Firlefanz
Reading: "The Pendragon Banner", by Sylvian Hamilton
Writing: "Evelina Unicorn Girl" - for lack of a better title
My home - Schreiberlinge unter sich
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30/May/04, 22:37
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Firlefanz
Senior Member
Registered: 05-2003
Location: Germany
Posts: 560
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Re: Is there any special meaning behind the number 12?
Well, planet number 3 in our solar system is still good old Terra.
--- - Firlefanz
Reading: "The Pendragon Banner", by Sylvian Hamilton
Writing: "Evelina Unicorn Girl" - for lack of a better title
My home - Schreiberlinge unter sich
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24/Jun/04, 21:32
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David Meadows
Senior Member
Registered: 09-2003
Posts: 390
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Re: Is there any special meaning behind the number 12?
Alpha Centauri wrote:
...or is it only coincidental?
The 12 tribes of Israel.
The 12 disciples of Jesus.
The number of disciples was deliberately chosen to reflect the 12 tribes of Israel. Jesus was a Jew, remember, so that sort of thing was important to him. So there is a connection but it's deliberate, not mystical.
The 12 Gods in ancient Greece.
Not sure where you get this number. My encyclopaedia lists several dozen; which 12 are you thinking of, specifically?
The 12 Knights of the Round Table (according to King Arthur's legend).
Again, I have no idea where you get this number from. The Round Table preserved at Winchester has spaces for 24 knights. I've read versions of the legend with even more -- over 100 in one case (though I would be pushed to name them all ;) ).
The 12 members in the Order of the Garter.
Ah, no again. The order consists of the king (or queen) plus 25 knights. Plus (occasionally) foreign monarchs are made honorary garter knights, their number being in addition to the 25 English knights.
The 12 nymphs of Valhalla (according to Scandinavian mythology).
Not sure about this one.
The 12 signs of the zodiac.
Apart from 12 being a convenient factor of 360? I'm not sure, there may be another reason but I don't recall.
...just to name a few that come to mind... What's with number 12 anyway? Anyone has a clue?
It doesn't seem to be as prevalent as you think it is.
Of course, you omitted: Bilbo and Frodo's combined age was 144 (12 x 12) at Bilbo's last birthday party, and the number of special guests in the grand marquee was also 144. Amazing coincidence!
--- Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it!
Boldness has genius, power and magic in it.
-- Goethe
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24/Jun/04, 23:58
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Alpha Centauri
Administrator
Runboard user emeritus
Registered: 02-2004
Location: Athens, Hellas
Posts: 1988
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Re: Is there any special meaning behind the number 12?
David Meadows wrote:
...Jesus was a Jew, remember....
Oh? I though he was God... The 12 Gods in ancient Greece. Not sure where you get this number. My encyclopaedia lists several dozen; which 12 are you thinking of, specifically?.
I'm referring to the 12 "primary" gods on Mount Olympus. Being a Greek myself, I happen to know... The 12 Knights of the Round Table (according to King Arthur's legend). The 12 members in the Order of the Garter. The 12 nymphs of Valhalla (according to Scandinavian mythology).
This is what I've found on the net in the past, so I'm not sure about it either. But if you say it ain't so, then that's fine with me. The 12 signs of the zodiac. Apart from 12 being a convenient factor of 360? I'm not sure, there may be another reason but I don't recall.
So are numbers 3, 4 and 9, but then again it might have to do with the 12 months (oops, another 12 we've got here...) It doesn't seem to be as prevalent as you think it is.
I'm not really into arithmology and the like. In fact, I tend to be pretty skeptical about all this... Although it seems to me that certain numbers DO prevail in certain eras of human civilization, as in a fractal-like manner... Coincidence? By all odds, yes... Anyway, I don't know much about Frodo and his gang, either. LOTR has never been my cup of tea...
BTW: Nice post... Keep 'em coming...
Last edited by: Alpha Centauri, 25/Jun/04, 1:06
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25/Jun/04, 1:01
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Firlefanz
Senior Member
Registered: 05-2003
Location: Germany
Posts: 560
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Re: Is there any special meaning behind the number 12?
Yes, Rusty, it does come from latin: duodecim = twelve.
I would still think that the importance of that number has to do with the moon and the twelve months it takes to fill a year - more or less. A lot of other uses would depend on that, the zodiac being one, for example.
Last edited by: Firlefanz, 25/Jun/04, 12:33
--- - Firlefanz
Reading: "The Pendragon Banner", by Sylvian Hamilton
Writing: "Evelina Unicorn Girl" - for lack of a better title
My home - Schreiberlinge unter sich
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25/Jun/04, 12:32
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Generalley Cool
Senior Member
Registered: 08-2003
Location: -NO, YOU prove im NOT diana!
Posts: 483
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Re: Is there any special meaning behind the number 12?
i havnt had time to read this all through yet but:
addi30 wrote:
Perhaps it has to do with the cycles of the moon? Meaning, 12 lunar months, so 12 became an important number?
actually, 12 calender months, there are actually 13 lunar months,
and a bakers dosen is 13, but im not sure where that comes in.
the imperial (is that right) mesurment is the reason for the dosen, the 12 hours of a clock and the 12 months.
the two zodiacs are both based on the stars, however they cannot be older than the calender to change every year (or month), and time as we know is imperial, so 12.
round table: 360 devided by 30 is 12, but that was knights pluss the head of the table, right? if not then if each of the 12 was given 20 deggreese of table then that would give elbow room and all, maby they couldnt take any more people? maby it was half the size of the one at winchester?
there were more than 12 god of greece, and i think there were 12 sons/daughters of gaia whos power was split up between the 12, who in-tern had many, many sons and daughters (zues had most didnt he?) problem is to many people belive the squeeky-clean disney movies (which arnt all that clean anyway)
i dont have ideas for the others, sorry, im not feeling to good atm
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11/Dec/04, 23:33
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