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lepixlet Profile
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Registered: 10-2004
Location: Wales, United Kingdom
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Who am I


I'm rather Large, and wear some of the worlds most horrendous crimpolene suits. I have a vast arsenal of nuclear weapons, and an anti Arab agenda. I have broken more UN resolutions than any other Middle Eastern country to date, and continue to do so. I am able to do anything I please, without fear of retribution, or accountability. I have the full backing of the Worlds Super Power. I am Xenophobic, Hyper Nationalistic, and racist without shame. I am the reason there will never be peace in the Middle East, and I'm happy for it to remain this way....

           Who am I ?

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A man more right than his neighbour, constitutes a majority of one
27/Oct/04, 15:24 Link to this post Email   PM  Yahoo  Blog
 
addi30 Profile
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Re: Who am I


What is a crimpolene suit?


I am Xenophobic, Hyper Nationalistic, and racist without shame. I am the reason there will never be peace in the Middle East



Hmm, that sounds like Hamas, or a similar group...but I never thought of them as anti-Arab.


Your write-up is both inaccurate and bears the obvious mark of the propagandanistic side of the European media, which can be just as bad as the American media (Fox news excluded, of course emoticon).

There are very few things in this world that are so simplistically black and white as you have presented here.

---
To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt
27/Oct/04, 15:54 Link to this post Email   PM 
 
lepixlet Profile
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Re: Who am I


the topis is 'Who am I'....you haven't yet guessed!!! but feel quick in judging me!!

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27/Oct/04, 15:58 Link to this post Email   PM  Yahoo  Blog
 
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Re: Who am I


It doesn't matter who it is. To me, your description comes across as very one-sided. It could be Israel; it could be Saudi Arabia; it could be Iraq; it could be something that's not occuring to me. Either way, (speaking as member not moderator here) - I find blanket labels typically are the result of a the influence of propaganda, as that particular form of psychological manipulation relies on quick-and-easy judgements and "sound bites" of complex situations in order to gain backers.

Personally, I can't think of any Middle Eastern entity that is anything other than complex. Feel free to correct me. emoticon

---
To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt
27/Oct/04, 16:07 Link to this post Email   PM 
 
addi30 Profile
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Re: Who am I


Oh, and I still want to know what a crimpolene suit is? emoticon

---
To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt
27/Oct/04, 16:11 Link to this post Email   PM 
 
David Meadows Profile
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Re: Who am I


Crimplene (no "o") is the trademark of a synthetic fibre that was popular in 70s. Cloth made with it was particularly crease-resistant. It also looked incredibly cheap, which is why it rapidly dropped out of fashion. I would imagine that [insert answer to riddle] doesn't actually wear crimplene, though his suits do have that look about them...



---
Nobody grows old merely by a number of years.
We grow old by deserting our ideals.
--Samuel Ullman, "Youth"
27/Oct/04, 16:39 Link to this post Email   PM 
 
addi30 Profile
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Re: Who am I


Ah, thanks! I tried to look it up on websters.com and it wouldn't come up with anything.

---
To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt
27/Oct/04, 16:46 Link to this post Email   PM 
 
lepixlet Profile
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Re: Who am I


Firstly, ( and I speak as an individual not someone who doesn't care much wether someone is a moderator or not) emoticon

The whole reason for the topic, was to start off a debate regarding the relatiionship between the Bush administration, and Ariel Sharone...the 'Who am I' was actually more of a catalyst to the real issue...HOWEVER!!! as you decided to not even guess who it was, and instead chose to jump on in, accuse me of being 'incorrect' and using 'European propaganda' amongst other things, as my template, you have now put me in a position (which i didn't want to be in, and shouldnt have to be in) to defend myself against what I see as a personal attack!!! emoticon


Your write-up is both inaccurate and bears the obvious mark of the propagandanistic side of the European media, which can be just as bad as the American media (Fox news excluded, of course posticon).



What was that about biased Media Addy? emoticon

Did you actually read the main post of the topic? there was little in there that isnt factual, The UN resolutions, fact The arsenal of nuclear weapons fact The fact he is never held acountable to the breaking of the UN resolutions,is just the tip of the ice burg...

So we clearly know which media you use as your ummm, ' non propaganda , ubiased reporting ( we of course wont mention that Fox News is owned by a jewish person emoticon )

If you are interested, and had you cared to ask, I use media from here in itty bitty Wales, right through to the herald in Sydney Asutralia, Japan, Middle East , and Most of the Mainstream US media CNN/ABC/MSNBC and even Fox news, I even check up on how old Kim Jong is running his media machine in North Korea ( a perfect example of how communism can be so badly interpreted , it ends up not even resembling the original ideal) so Addy, how about we start over, and attack the issue as opposed to attacking me? emoticon

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David Meadows Profile
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Re: Who am I


You mis-read addi's post:

"which can be just as bad as the American media (Fox news excluded, of course )."

... in other words, European is just as bad as most American media... but not as bad as Fox... nothing is as bad as Fox emoticon


Last edited by:
David Meadows, 27/Oct/04, 17:07


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Nobody grows old merely by a number of years.
We grow old by deserting our ideals.
--Samuel Ullman, "Youth"
27/Oct/04, 17:05 Link to this post Email   PM 
 
lepixlet Profile
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Re: Who am I


Dave..I think I read it, as it was meant, what Addy said was that ' European news is as bad as American media 'excluding Fox news' so doesnt that mean he takes FOX NEWS out of the ' Crap American Media' category?

It just seems that the point has been totally missed here, and I find myself defending myself against accusations based on 'assumptions'.....'go figure' as some of my american chums say emoticon

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A man more right than his neighbour, constitutes a majority of one
27/Oct/04, 17:12 Link to this post Email   PM  Yahoo  Blog
 
addi30 Profile
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Re: Who am I



So we clearly know which media you use as your ummm, ' non propaganda , ubiased reporting ( we of course wont mention that Fox News is owned by a jewish person )



lol - first of all, as David aptly picked up, you have completely misinterpreted my reference to Fox news. The point was that, in my comparing the two media outlets, I was excluding Fox News in saying that they were similarly propagandistic, because Fox News is SO over-the-top with their propaganda that there is not other news source that I've seen match them, European or otherwise. The point wasn't that Fox isn't propaganda, but rather that it's the worst propaganda out there.

David had the advantage of having talked to me for a while, so I think he knows me well enough to know or assume my personal disdain for Fox News.

Now, please explain why it's relevent that Fox is owned by a Jewish person?

I would also like to know in what way my criticising your post is a personal attack on you? I specifically said "your write-up."


Did you actually read the main post of the topic? there was little in there that isnt factual



Why yes I did. And here's the part I was referring to:


am able to do anything I please, without fear of retribution, or accountability. I have the full backing of the Worlds Super Power. I am Xenophobic, Hyper Nationalistic, and racist without shame. I am the reason there will never be peace in the Middle East, and I'm happy for it to remain this way....




Now, personally, I think Sharon is scum. But that doesn't change my opinion that your original post presents a very biased and one-sided view of the situation. As far as the UN resolutions - unfortunately I don't have time to get into that in depth right now, but I'll try to later in the day.


---
To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt
27/Oct/04, 17:17 Link to this post Email   PM 
 
lepixlet Profile
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Re: Who am I


I will gladly point out the part I felt to be assumption based vitriol

Your write-up is both inaccurate and bears the obvious mark of the propagandanistic side of the European media



The obvious mark? I can't actually name one European Media, I bother watching , and the reason for that is. I dont speak French, German, Italian. Slav, dutch, danish etc etc....

Secondly

Now, personally, I think Sharon is scum. But that doesn't change my opinion that your original post presents a very biased and one-sided view of the situation. As far as the UN resolutions - unfortunately I don't have time to get into that in depth right now, but I'll try to later in the day.



Huh? So you attack my post, and didnt actually know if any of it was correct, and assumed that becasue it was 'obvious ' to you that ,I use horribly biased European Media, then its just propaganda, and not factual, another problem with assumption based responses no?

thirdly

I would also like to know in what way my criticising your post is a personal attack on you? I specifically said "your write-up."



be as semantic as you wish about it, you came in , head on, without looking at what I had written, bothering to find out if it was factual or not, and then said my write up was 'inncurate' LOL, and as for

 

I think Sharon is scum. But that doesn't change my opinion that your original post presents a very biased and one-sided view of the situation.



Well of course it shows a ONE SIDED VIEW of ths situation, its only the ONE side we are discussing, this isnt a topic about Israel V Palestine , who is the victim etc...Its about the relationship between USA and Israel....

I think Ill go and start a new topic called 'Who was I '
 emoticon

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Alpha Centauri Profile
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Re: Who am I


Yes!... It is Ariel Sharon, alright... The warmonger responsible for the Sampra and Shatila massacre (amongst other atrocities).

Yes!... Most of what you have said ARE historical facts...

No!... The leadership in the anti-Arab agenda belongs to Saudi Arabia!; not to Israel!...

No!... Those attibutes you have mentioned apply to Ariel Sharon and some other Zionist groups, BUT they do NOT apply to Israeli people in general, nor to ALL Israeli politicians. It would be unfair for Yitzhak Rabin or Shimon Peres if they did...

No!... Not all Israelis are Zionists, not all Zionists are Israelis...

No!... My personal views on the Israeli-politics issue are NOT pro-Israeli. On the contrary...

Yes!... Addi30 IS a very reasonable open-minded person, her point of view was exactly as David has explained, and she never resorts to personal attacks.

Yes!... The whole reason for the topic, was to start off a debate regarding the relatiionship between the Bush administration, and Ariel Sharon... BUT... the overall write-up DID resemble the usual anti-[insert ethnicity here] posts which can be found everywhere on the net. Therefore, we had to make sure it wasn't meant that way, and I'm glad you clarified...

Yes!... I believe we all (members and board staff) can handle such sensitive issues like grown up adults...

As you were...

emoticon


Last edited by:
Alpha Centauri, 27/Oct/04, 17:58


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27/Oct/04, 17:55 Link to this post PM 
 
addi30 Profile
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Re: Who am I



lepixlet wrote:

I will gladly point out the part I felt to be assumption based vitriol

Your write-up is both inaccurate and bears the obvious mark of the propagandanistic side of the European media



The obvious mark? I can't actually name one European Media, I bother watching , and the reason for that is. I dont speak French, German, Italian. Slav, dutch, danish etc etc....



That wasn't vitriol; that was disagreement with your post. I have made no statements about you personally.

And yes, the obvious mark. Many, many European newspapers are published in English, and I saw their influence in the wording of your post.


Huh? So you attack my post, and didnt actually know if any of it was correct,



What makes you think I don't know whether any of it was correct? I am well versed in the Middle Eastern situation, both from an insider's point of view and an outsider's poiont view. I feel that the motivations and qualities you attributed to Sharon in your original post are inaccurate; xenophobia and racism have less to do with his actions than plain old greed and power. Further, the US most certainly has not afforded full support to Israel. What I said before, and what I will say again, is that your original post bears the mark of the more propagandistic side of the European media. I did not blanketly dismiss everything you had to say as nonfactual; rather, I commented on the one-sided, blanket presentation of your post. I have made no comments regarding you personally or your research skills.


be as semantic as you wish about it, you came in , head on, without looking at what I had written, bothering to find out if it was factual or not, and then said my write up was 'inncurate'



Correct. I find your write-up to be inaccurate. Disagreeing with your post is not attacking you personally. However:


but feel quick in judging me!!




Did you actually read the main post of the topic?




I will gladly point out the part I felt to be assumption based vitriol




you came in , head on, without looking at what I had written,




All of the above examples are, in fact, personal attacks. And quite unwarranted, as all I have done is disagree with your initial post.


Well of course it shows a ONE SIDED VIEW of ths situation, its only the ONE side we are discussing,



No, this is a discussion board - on which, many sides are discussed.


I think Ill go and start a new topic called 'Who was I '
 emoticon



You are welcome to start any topic you please. Please be prepared for responses that may disagree with your point of view.



---
To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt
27/Oct/04, 18:03 Link to this post Email   PM 
 
lepixlet Profile
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Re: Who am I


 I have read the first part of your post, I read as far s you claiming ' you can see the influence of the European media in my wording' and read no further. I have categorically told you, I do not use European Media , other than british, and sometimes Irish, so you are basically calling me a liar....I refuse to play this game of semantics with you, you are wasting my time. I find you offensive, arrogant, and badly informed, this subject of Israel, and even the basic common knowledge, of them endlessly breaking UN resolutions, wasnt known to you, and so I suspect this isnt a subject you know that much about, you have dragged me into some proverbial pissing contest, which I would expect to find in some second rate poltiics chat room of Yahoo, and im not taking part in it, any longer.

You completely missed the whole point, and I think you know it...I know Im the newbie here, but, I believe in calling a spade a spade, and you are completely out of order..I have a low boredom threshold, Ive reached it, shall find another topic... emoticon

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A man more right than his neighbour, constitutes a majority of one
27/Oct/04, 20:18 Link to this post Email   PM  Yahoo  Blog
 
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Re: Who am I


Again, the subject was Ariel Sharone and yes, I know they are historical facts, why would i bother typing anything other than historical facts?


No!... Those attibutes you have mentioned apply to Ariel Sharon and some other Zionist groups, BUT they do NOT apply to Israeli people in general, nor to ALL Israeli politicians. It would be unfair for Yitzhak Rabin or Shimon Peres if they did...



I tend not to use the word 'Zionist' and I havent mentioned Israeli people, the subject was Ariel Sharone, just him, not Israeli people, JUST him, i thought it was clear 'who am I ' not 'Who are they' I was describing one MAN. not the people who have no say, or influence, and he is anti arab, in fact he is most noted as being so.

you mention the word ' Israel' and my God, if you speak out against from who I see is an animal, and an animal who literally gets away with 'war crimes' has no repsect for International law. to the point where he breaks it on a daily basis. All of a sudden, the person speaking out against this criminal, becomes anti semtic or a 'jew hater'. There is something very wrong here, but for the record, I abhor Ariel Sharone, and I don't care if he is the son of God himself, Iraq broke UN resolutions, not as many as Sharone however, they are now between 15,000 to 36,0000 innocent civilians short, try explianing
to the families of the dead, why its one rule for them, and no rules for Ariel Sharone, in fact, explain that to the rest of the Middle East, who have also noticed this, and then maybe consider again, why there will never be peace in the Middle East while this man is laughing at the rest of the world, because he can and does get away with MURDER...

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A man more right than his neighbour, constitutes a majority of one
27/Oct/04, 20:39 Link to this post Email   PM  Yahoo  Blog
 
addi30 Profile
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Re: Who am I



All of a sudden, the person speaking out against this criminal, becomes anti semtic or a 'jew hater'.



I don't believe I or anyone else here has indicated anything like this. That's quite a jump.


I do not use European Media , other than british, and sometimes Irish, so you are basically calling me a liar



No, I am agreeing with you. You use British, and sometimes Irish. And as a person who is trained to analyze the written form, I saw the influence present in your word choice and phrasing.


I find you offensive, arrogant, and badly informed, this subject of Israel, and even the basic common knowledge, of them endlessly breaking UN resolutions, wasnt known to you.



lol - What are you talking about? Of course it was known to me. I simply didn't have time to explore the subject with you at that point in time.

Now here's something that appears to be unknown to you - the Code of Conduct of this board. Specifically:


Attack ideas, not people

Do not insult, demean, belittle, degrade, provoke, harass, abuse, ridicule, slander, attack, or flame any other member







Last edited by:
addi30, 27/Oct/04, 20:50


---
To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt
27/Oct/04, 20:49 Link to this post Email   PM 
 
Alpha Centauri Profile
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Re: Who am I



lepixlet wrote:
...the subject was Ariel Sharone, just him, not Israeli people, JUST him, i thought it was clear 'who am I ' not 'Who are they' I was describing one MAN...

Well, let me tell you this was NOT clear from the beginning! You know why? Here's why:

lepixlet wrote:
I have broken more UN resolutions than any other Middle Eastern COUNTRY to date...

Hence, we had to make sure, don't you think?

Now, since WE too like to call a spade a spade like you do, here's the deal:

You are entitled to your opinions and views and you may express them freely in here, much like you did so far. However... address any member of this board in the offensive, offending and disrespectful manner shown above, once more and you'll get the boot!

Is this clear enough? I hope it is!... For this is a first-time-last-time-warning...

---



27/Oct/04, 21:43 Link to this post PM 
 
lepixlet Profile
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Re: Who am I


Educating Addi United Nation Transcript calling for Ariel Sharon to be charged with war crimes

Let me stop you right there Addi, Is that the best you can do? throw a ' code of conduct' paragraph at me? My advice to you is, never enter a battle half armed, you clearly have no knowledge of the world around you, especially something as vital and important to all of us, which is Peace in the Middle East. above is a link for you, educate yourself Addi, before making a complete fool of yourself, in the future. And as for your code of conduct, and no doubt the impending '' I have lost face in front of my peers, so Im going to suspend lepixlets acount'' Don't bother, Im suspending my account, from you, may the wind of knowledge blow up your collective beaks! Goodbye ( if there is anything remotely cerebral out there, email me at [email protected]... Maybe there is a forum , that can discuss the Israel situation without getting all neurotic about it

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27/Oct/04, 21:51 Link to this post Email   PM  Yahoo  Blog
 
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Re: Who am I



lepixlet wrote:
Maybe there is a forum , that can discuss the Israel situation without getting all neurotic about it

"Discuss" is something you have to LEARN how to do first, my friend. So long.

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Re: Who am I


Woah, you went to nuclear in next to no time!

 emoticon

---
- Firlefanz

Reading: Anthology Stories
Rewriting: "The Cloth-Merchant's Daughter", 2nd Lar Elien book

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Re: Who am I


erm, i didnt have time to read this whole thing, but if you havnt already answerd the actual question can i guess that its the actual united states of america themselfs, or the government of the united states anyway.

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http://www.geocities.com/generalley

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Re: Who am I



Firlefanz wrote:
Woah, you went to nuclear in next to no time!

You know how it goes with nuclear: You either use them or lose them... I think I've managed so that the red buttons didn't get pressed after all... Back to green alert everybody!

emoticon

Generalley Cool wrote:
 its the actual united states of america themselfs

Is USA a Middle East country? emoticon

Seriously now, feel free to further discuss the topic if you want... I had no problem with lepixlet's views concerning that particular butcher and his whatever connections to the US. It was lepixlet's attitude which I had a major problem with...

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27/Oct/04, 22:24 Link to this post PM 
 
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 emoticon emoticon i guess i didnt read it right, i jus scanned it. my brains more focused on getting this movie finneshed atm

---



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27/Oct/04, 23:22 Link to this post PM  ICQ  MSN  Blog
 
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Alpha Centauri wrote:

... I had no problem with lepixlet's views concerning that particular butcher and his whatever connections to the US. It was lepixlet's attitude which I had a major problem with...



Agreed. But I think it is important to be able to see true motivations. It's easy to say "he's just a racist, anti-Arab" whatever as a knee-jerk reaction. However, I feel quite strongly that he is not motivated at all by racism - he's is motivated by love of power. It doesn't matter who it is that's getting killed - Arabs, Jews - I have seen no indictation on his part that racism is what is fueling the fire on his side. Bush, too, is all about power. His voter base supports Israel - mainly because they fear the "Holy Land" will be closed to Christians if it falls into Arab hands (as with Mecca). There's many other factors as well, of course; this is a major simplification.

On the other side - Hamas and their ilk - I see racism as a major fueling factor. So the question, to me, is how do take a group of power hungry racists on one side and a power hungry monster on the other and come out of the situation with peace?

Personally, I say you can't.


---
To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Who am I


You are absolutely right, addi. For the last 20 years, we are all watching every peace initiative, be it from the US, EU, or the Israelis themselves (remember the concessions Barak offered), being blown to bits by psychotics and murderers. Too bad a lot of the European media- and especially here in Greece- don't appear to realize that, and instead of showing all the horrendous results of the attacks and ambushes against innocent families in their cars or homes, or the bombing campaingns that leave hundreds of civilians dead or maimed for life, they constantly bombard us with the "attrocities" of the Israeli army, or the posturing and revenge-vowing (against civilians, of course), of all the terrorist groups down there. I know it's very fashionable to be anti-Israeli those days, and to totally disregard the chaos and destruction Palestinian militant groups have brought in that region. However, I believe that the UN and EU should try to pass and enforce very tough resolutions against those psychos of Hammas et al. , instead of just giving them the proverbial slap in the wrist and generally "condemning their actions" every time they engage in one of their atrocities.

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Once there was The People--Terror gave it birth;
Once there was The People and it made a Hell of Earth
Earth arose and crushed it. Listen, 0 ye slain!
Once there was The People--it shall never be again!
28/Oct/04, 12:34 Link to this post Email   PM  Blog
 
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Re: Who am I



gkapitso wrote:
For the last 20 years, we are all watching every peace initiative, be it from the US, EU, or the Israelis themselves, being blown to bits by psychotics and murderers.

I disagree!. This is a very simplistic way to see the whole thing... What peace initiative? Has there ever been a viable one? or even one that hasn't been undermined by EITHER side? Unless you consider to be a "peace intitiative" the latest one (proposed by the Bush administration), which summed up in: "It's the Sharon's way or no way at all"!!!

gkapitso wrote:
I believe that the UN and EU should try to pass and enforce very tough resolutions against those psychos of Hammas et al. , instead of just giving them the proverbial slap in the wrist and generally "condemning their actions" every time they engage in one of their atrocities.

Not so fast, my friend... Sharon's never been given not even THAT (ie. the proverbial slap in the wrist) for all the UN resolutions that HE has violated!...

In all, there are so many complecatedly interacting factors responsible for the Middle East never ending crisis, that simply blaming it all on guerilla groups of "psychotics and murderers" is just the easy way out...

emoticon


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Alpha Centauri, 28/Oct/04, 15:00


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28/Oct/04, 14:23 Link to this post PM 
 
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I agree that there has been horrendous blood-shed, murders and power play - on both sides, to varying degrees. I want to state that this is wrong, and I don't accept violence as a solution.

However, one side of this brutal game is orchestrated by a govenment, namly the one of Israel. Israel is a state with laws and rules (which is what Palestine still is not.). I agree that this state has the right to defend itself in the war waged against it. Even so, I think that the state at least should be bound by its own rules.

Example: An officer emptied a whole clip of bullets into the body of a badly injured girl. She was shot 25 times, at close range. This is a crime (even under conditions of war). But what happens? All other soldiers retract their statements, and the officer walks free. That's not what should happen in a state that respects laws.

I do not condone Hamas. But I think that Israel cannot be believable if its own laws are bend backwards in answering violence with violence. This is where hypocrisy comes in, and that's what makes it so hard to say that Israel is doing the right thing - when you can see that laws are broken and people walk free because they are a member of the military. Or, as some media might put it, because the victim was "only" a Palestinian girl.

Hamas are terrorists. This officer acted like a terrorist, as well. I believe that Hamas won't stop, but they need to lose the backing of the Palestinian people. In order to reach that aim, incidences like that shooting have to stop, and Palestinians have to be shown that there are alternatives to Hamas. Only then peace can return to the region.

Just my humble opinion, as a European.

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28/Oct/04, 14:42 Link to this post Email   PM  Blog
 
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I humbly second your humble opinion, my fellow European... emoticon

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28/Oct/04, 14:55 Link to this post PM 
 
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I second that opinion as well. Do bear in mind, however, that there has been rebellion against this kind of behavior on the part of Israeli soldiers. The problem is, there hasn't been a lot of rebellion on the part of the Palistinian people against the behavior of Hamas.

If you look into the value system being taught to many Palistinian children right now, anti-semitism is part of the culture. Children are being taught to play "kill Israelis" and "kill Jews" as a game. Things have not gone that far within the Israeli culture.

I see a number of things that need to happen before there will ever be peace, and they are all things that will take a long time. The biggest immediate thing that needs to happen, in my perception, is that both the US and EU need to stop taking "sides" in this conflict. Both powers need to negotiate - without Israel, the Palistinian leadership, or any Arab nation - what they feel the fair solution would be. Personally, I would opt for a solution that involves Israel continuing to exist and the Palistinians getting the soveriegn nation they wish - with world -wide retribution if they use that nation to continue attacking/trying to take more land from Israel. In order to acheive this, the US needs to stop backing Sharon and encourage whatever administration is in power in Israel to be more flexible, stop building walls over orchards (as an example - althought the Israeli courts did order the Israeli government to cease such activity and pay retribution for that which they had destroyed). etc. The EU, on the other hand, needs to work more closely with Israel - stop funding anti-semetic text books that teach Arab children that Jews are a "cancer" or disease that needs to be wiped out, or depicting Jews as cockroaches to be exterminated. As long as the EU funds such books and attitudes, the cultural poisoning continues, and the problem continues. Unfortunately, with anti-Israel/anti-Semeticsentiment being high in Europe at the moment, I think many people fail to see the bigger picture.

Personally, I think Thomas Freedman has the right of it - Clinton was negotiating a peace that would work. Arafat left the table - and then told his people that Israel had offered nothing, which was a blatant lie. Why? For the same reason that Sharon acts as he does - power and money. Without the conflict, both of their power diminishes drastically. And I agree with something else Thomas Freedman said - that Sharon's election is the direct result of Arafat dropping negotiations: to paraphrase, he said there is nothing worse for a nation than war followed by peace followed by the same war. That, my friends, is how Sharon came to power - prolonging the conflict is how he stays there. It's not about racism on his side; he was quick to use the Jewish "settlers" however it suited him, with no regard to their safety. He does what it takes to benefit himself. He is the other side of the Bush coin.

However, there are many in Israel who oppose him. I'm not seeing many who oppose Arafat/Hamas. This entire conflict started before Israel even owned the West Bank/Gaza; the PLO was formed NOT to get a co-existing Palistinian homeland (which was offered to them back when Israel was first formed). The PLO was formed with sole intent of wiping out Israel completely.

As my Grandpa said, you cannot reason with unreasonable people. The Jews tried to negotiate with the Nazis during WWII; we know how that turned out. When the sole goal of an organization is to kill, then that organization will not be happy with anything but death.

Sharon is a problem. But he is a temporary problem, who will be quickly replaced when the people of Israel as a whole can see any other alternative. Right now, they see none; instead, they see a culture and generation living next door who wants to kill them.

Arafat, the PLO, Hamas - these are a more lasting problem. They have become, to a very large degree, the culture. Obviously, not for all Palistinians - but the ones that doesn't apply to are being killed by Hamas itself, frightened into silence, etc. And some of them are becoming disgusted with Sharon and becoming part of the violence culture themselves.

As long as the current cycle continues, Sharon will stay in power and things will get worse. As far as I'm concerned, both the US and the EU need to pull back to a neutral stance and work together, putting aside personal interest in the region, to solve the problem. But as long as the EU continues to provide aid to the current Palistinian leadership, then the US must back Sharon. If the US and EU can't manage to get together on this one, what makes anyone think that Israel and the Palistinians can?


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To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt
28/Oct/04, 18:24 Link to this post Email   PM 
 


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