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ofthe Father8 Profile
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Re: Biblical ...ethics.



addi30 wrote:


ofthe Father8 wrote:


There are ways that seem right to a man but the end of those are death.



I find this particularly bit of advice highly ironic. Do you not feel this statement applies to yourself as well? Or are you certain enough that you have found the "Truth" that this sentence no longer applies to you?





For instance, my sister hates to wait on others. She doesn't mind when others have to wait on her. She gets angry when you put her on hold on the phone. Yet, when she puts you on hold on the phone, it doesn't bother her that you are left waiting, and you wait patiently.

You could say that she is impatient. But there is another hidden problem other than the most obvious one. She feels that she is too good to wait, and that when she waits on someone else she is beneath them and she can't stand that. Her main problem is pride. Pride says I am better than you in something, somewhere, somehow. Pride breeds competition. If she waits, then she feels beneath you, when she feels that she should be over you.

A person steals. You think, well, they have a problem with the stealing the sin. But look deeper. They really have a problem with coveting. They see something of someone elses. They desire it to the point that they would steal or take it without your knowing. You can't stop a stealer, until you first show them their coveting. Many stealers will say--I don't have a problem with coveting--I just take things thats all!





What qualifies you to judge other's inner motivations? Is that the arrogance your "Father" tells you to avoid? Or something else?




Will JK go into the Queen and the aristocracry demanding that they meet and speak with him on his time? He feels his meditation time is a good time. It seems like a good time to me too.




And once again, if you are unable to make your point without - for whatever odd reason - attempting to single out invidual members and pass your personal judgement on them, then I'm afraid in the future you will have to refrain from making your point at all.


I am curious as to how many of the guidelines you've listed above apply to you? I am also curious as to how you are so certain that you have not been led astray in the manner you say everyone else has.




yes, I said that I have to use it too, and still must.
10/Oct/04, 23:03 Link to this post Email   PM  Blog
 
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Re: Biblical ...ethics.



addi30 wrote:


ofthe Father8 wrote:


There are ways that seem right to a man but the end of those are death.



I find this particularly bit of advice highly ironic. Do you not feel this statement applies to yourself as well? Or are you certain enough that you have found the "Truth" that this sentence no longer applies to you?





For instance, my sister hates to wait on others. She doesn't mind when others have to wait on her. She gets angry when you put her on hold on the phone. Yet, when she puts you on hold on the phone, it doesn't bother her that you are left waiting, and you wait patiently.

You could say that she is impatient. But there is another hidden problem other than the most obvious one. She feels that she is too good to wait, and that when she waits on someone else she is beneath them and she can't stand that. Her main problem is pride. Pride says I am better than you in something, somewhere, somehow. Pride breeds competition. If she waits, then she feels beneath you, when she feels that she should be over you.

A person steals. You think, well, they have a problem with the stealing the sin. But look deeper. They really have a problem with coveting. They see something of someone elses. They desire it to the point that they would steal or take it without your knowing. You can't stop a stealer, until you first show them their coveting. Many stealers will say--I don't have a problem with coveting--I just take things thats all!





What qualifies you to judge other's inner motivations? Is that the arrogance your "Father" tells you to avoid? Or something else?




Will JK go into the Queen and the aristocracry demanding that they meet and speak with him on his time? He feels his meditation time is a good time. It seems like a good time to me too.




And once again, if you are unable to make your point without - for whatever odd reason - attempting to single out invidual members and pass your personal judgement on them, then I'm afraid in the future you will have to refrain from making your point at all.


I am curious as to how many of the guidelines you've listed above apply to you? I am also curious as to how you are so certain that you have not been led astray in the manner you say everyone else has.




Wait a second. You just did what you accused me of doing to Jk. I am not singling JK out. I am just explaining to Him what the Scripture describes, instead of what we think. I put myself in it as well. I still have to do self reflection and many times admit to the Father and others that I am wrong. But I don't pick on people. That is not me.

How can you show a person another point of view unless you question the original point of view. I was trying to explain this from how the Father MAY be looking at it. Is this about something else with you. Because I told you I was not trying to disrespect JK. I thought meditation time would have been a good time too, but I was saying- did the Father think the same way?

Arrogance would have been using my own judgment to judge why my sister reacts the way she does. The Father tells us to use His judgements. I would have just thought she was impatient. I judge according to my Father's judgments-not my own. I would have judged wrong if I had not learned from Him.

If I am going to get kicked off the board--please don't make up reasons why. All of the things that I listed above apply to me! Why do people think just because you're saved that you think you are perfect? I have a long way to go, and I could not have done it without self reflection, speaking from experience.

I need the Father. Without Him I am nothing. I am weak. He is strong. He strengthens me. In my weakness, He is strong.

Have you judged yourself for attacking me just because I did not agree with you?
10/Oct/04, 23:28 Link to this post Email   PM  Blog
 
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Re: Biblical ...ethics.



You just did what you accused me of doing to Jk.



Quite the contrary. I did not accuse you of anything or tell you anything - I asked. I am trying to understand where you feel your spiritual development is at in terms of progrssion.


Arrogance would have been using my own judgment to judge why my sister reacts the way she does. The Father tells us to use His judgements. I would have just thought she was impatient. I judge according to my Father's judgments-not my own. I would have judged wrong if I had not learned from Him.



You have no choice but to use your own judgement. God's thoughts and judgements are beyond man. You have said this yourself (in another thread).


If I am going to get kicked off the board--please don't make up reasons why.



Who said anything about getting kicked off the board? Not sure where that one came from. I'm a pretty blunt person. If I intended to kick you off the board, I assure you there would be no need for you to wonder, nor would I need to make up reasons.


Is this about something else with you.



No, and please don't turn this into a personal issue on either side. This is about maintaining a certain level of respect for fellow posters, in order to maintain an open discussion environment. Without these standards, the entire tone of the board can change from intelligent discussion and debate to flat out nastiness.


Have you judged yourself for attacking me just because I did not agree with you?



lol - no, but apparently you have. emoticon

I have not attacked you. I have conveyed to you the standards of this board as a moderator of this board. Snide comments directed toward board staff will not advance your cause.

As far as agreeing with me - you have very little idea of what my beliefs are, so how do you know what we do or do not agree on?




---
To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt
11/Oct/04, 0:11 Link to this post Email   PM 
 
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Re: Biblical ...ethics.


oftheFather8,

1. First off, no one gets kicked out of this board unless they THEMSELVES provide adequate reasons for that; much less we (the administration team) use to "make reasons" for banning a member. Like I've said before good will is what our members will find in here...

2. I understand that in your passionate effort to make people listen to what you say, you may not be totally aware of how your sayings might sound to other people... As a third party, let me tell you that an "I'm hollier than thou" attitude IS present in your posts more often than not, even if you do not intent it to be this way, or even if you are completely unaware of your posts being read this way by other members...

3. Addi30 (being a member of the administration team here) commented on your posts in her aforesaid moderator's capacity, and NOT as a member of this board simply participating in a debate. In other words she IS entitled to address you personally in trying to pinpoint that the above "I'm hollier than thou" attitude (which, like I said, you, yourself, might not even be aware of) does affect other members' feelings and/or reactions, therefore it should be -by all means- avoided... It goes without saying that Addi30's post should NOT be considered as a personal attack to you, nor is it based upon her agreeing or disagreeing with your views, but rather as a moderator's action to prevent possible misunderstandings between you and other members...

Think about it...

Thanx.

PS: BTW: It would be much more convenient for you and the other members here, and it would very much benefit the overall readability of your posts, if you did NOT quote the WHOLE content of a thread in order to answer (like you use to do), but rather quote ONLY the parts relevant to your upcoming answer.

---



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Re: Biblical ...ethics.


It is not that we will not understand HIm at all. As we grow Spiritually we will understand many things. We can also ask for Spiritual understanding whenever we do not understand. But it means that there are times that we think that we are thinking or doing right according to man's ways, and the Father disapproves of it.

When you get to know a person, then you can begin to understand what that person likes or dislikes.

JK, I ask the Father to help me hear Him when He speaks-whenever or wherever that may be.
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Re: Biblical ...ethics.


I should probably keep out of this, but I'm a glutton for a good argument...


Alpha Centauri wrote:
As a third party, let me tell you that an "I'm hollier than thou" attitude IS present in your posts more often than not, even if you do not intent it to be this way, or even if you are completely unaware of your posts being read this way by other members...


Alpha, as a third party, I'm afraid I must tell you that an "I'm holier than thou" attitude is present in your posts. Of course, you don't intend it and you're probably unaware of it...

And I'm perfectly willing to believe that attitude is also present in my posts, but of course I would never notice it...

Of course, that attitude is only apparent to certain readers... which says just as much about the attitude of the readers as of the writer.

The attitude of the reader is always going to affect how a post is read... because no reader is an entirely disinterested third party, no matter how much he might think he is. Your own bias will colour what you read.

(This of course applies to everybody... not just ofthefather, or Alpha, or me... I think it's probably just a facet of human nature.)


Edit - post replaced after administrative review


Last edited by:
addi30, 13/Oct/04, 18:04


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Re: Biblical ...ethics.


David,

If you have an issue you would like to discuss to with board staff, please do it via pm. Administration actions are not open to public debate.

Thanks.

---
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Re: Biblical ...ethics.


No, no issues to discuss with board staff. I was commenting on something I saw in a post from a board member, not from an administrator, if you see what I mean. The phrase "administrative action" was nowhere near my consciousness at the time I made the comment.



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13/Oct/04, 17:33 Link to this post Email   PM 
 
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Re: Biblical ...ethics.


I do see what you mean, and thank you. emoticon

---
To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Biblical ...ethics.



David Meadows wrote:
Alpha, as a third party, I'm afraid I must tell you that an "I'm holier than thou" attitude is present in your posts. Of course, you don't intend it and you're probably unaware of it...
...
Of course, that attitude is only apparent to certain readers... which says just as much about the attitude of the readers as of the writer.

The attitude of the reader is always going to affect how a post is read... because no reader is an entirely disinterested third party, no matter how much he might think he is. Your own bias will colour what you read.

(This of course applies to everybody... not just ofthefather, or Alpha, or me... I think it's probably just a facet of human nature.)

David, you've made a valid point there... What you say does apply to a conversation, given that everyone believes that their own opinions/views are better established/supported (in other words they are "holier") than those of others when discussing/debating. Otherwise they wouldn't have them in the first place, would they? So this is quite normal a thing to happen and, of course, it can be observed in anyone's "attitude" at any given moment (or, at least, when at debate).

But that was NOT what I meant by using the "holier than thou attitude" phrase in my previous post. So, let me clarify this a little bit more: What I said, was NOT meant to be taken metaphorically (in the aforesaid sense like you implied) but LITERALLY instead!. You see, in a forum about religion and stuff like this, "holier" has a distinguishable literal meaning, therefore it's to be taken face-value (mostly because this particular word in itself it's directly related/affixed to religion)... Therefore, what I (as a moderator!) meant to point out by this "holier than thou" thingie is exactly this: one is entitled to post something like "I believe my God is better than yours" or the like. What one is NOT entitled to post is something like "I happen to know the one and only God! how about the rest of you, pagans?"...

THIS kind of "holier" I was referring to... and I would do it again if I had to... (moderation-wise)

Thanx for your comments tho. Made me sit back and think about it for a while... And thinking is always a good thing to happen...

emoticon


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Alpha Centauri, 14/Oct/04, 9:33


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Re: Biblical ...ethics.


It is? But Alpha, my guidance counselor says it's BAD for me to resist the effects of the sleepy-drugs! Teenagers thinking . . . what a terrible idea!! emoticon

---
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Let's see if we can't get to the truth of the matter, hmm?

'Lyssa was here . . . and she'll be back
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Re: Biblical ...ethics.



addi30 wrote:
You have no choice but to use your own judgement. God's thoughts and judgements are beyond man. You have said this yourself (in another thread).


When I was born, I did not know that it was wrong to lie. I learned that the Father judges lying as wrong. I did not know that it was wrong to steal. The Father judges stealing as wrong. He gave me these judgments, and I use them. I never wrote anything or came up with the idea that these things were wrong. I go by what the Father says is right and wrong. The Father says judge no man by outward appearance. Many see a person's clothes or jewelry and judge that person from what is on the outside. I learned that this outward judgment of a person is wrong from the Father. I would not have known this unless I had read His Word and His judgments. The Father tells us to do His judgments.

addi30 wrote:
Who said anything about getting kicked off the board? Not sure where that one came from. I'm a pretty blunt person. If I intended to kick you off the board, I assure you there would be no need for you to wonder, nor would I need to make up reasons.


You said that if I keep on doing what I was doing that I wouldn't be allowed to do it. That sounds to me like you are planning on quarterback action. Does it matter that I am offended by your words? I wasn't trying to disrespect JK, and no matter how many times I say that, it never gets heard. Just more mean words from you and threatenings.

JK didn't seem to be offended. I think he knew and understood what I was trying to say. I didn't say--JK you are arrogant. I made a statement and let JK consider whether the statement applied to him or not. He said are you saying that I am arrogant, and if you are, how am I arrogant. I never said, yes you are arrogant. I gave him some illustrations that he could think about and compare with himself to see if he may have been in that same situation. I wanted him to reflect on himself, and then make his own judgment. He found that those things did not apply to him, so that was it. Why don't we ask JK if he was offended, so that he may answer for himself.

addi30 wrote:
No, and please don't turn this into a personal issue on either side. This is about maintaining a certain level of respect for fellow posters, in order to maintain an open discussion environment. Without these standards, the entire tone of the board can change from intelligent discussion and debate to flat out nastiness.


Yes, but who watches the watchers?-Remember you said so bluntly that I wouldn't have to wonder...... You assert your authority well

addi30 wrote:
I have not attacked you. I have conveyed to you the standards of this board as a moderator of this board. Snide comments directed toward board staff will not advance your cause.
As far as agreeing with me - you have very little idea of what my beliefs are, so how do you know what we do or do not agree on?


I perceived your comments as snide, especially when I wasn't trying to do the thing you accused me of. JK and I were talking. He didn't, as far as my knowledge, say that what I said was nasty or complain to you guys, or say to me that I had hurt him. For example, he told me that the word pagan offended him, and I told him that I would use something else. But he did not tell me that I had offended him again, YOU did. If he was offended, and didn't understand what I was trying to say, I think he would have told me. JK probably knows that I wasn't trying to diss him, because he has, and one time, been in this same religion himself, and left it.

You and I were disagreeing on the Jewish thing. Next thing I know, you were saying that I was singling out someone, when we were just continuing with the conversation.

Moderator's note: oftheFather8, I -for once more- had a very hard time editing your post in order to make it readable. You'd better refrain from quoting the whole thread each and every time you make a post, or use NO quoting at all... You should also specifically AVOID enclosing your answers in a quote section, because this way it all gets mixed up big time!. Thanx.


Last edited by:
Alpha Centauri, 16/Oct/04, 17:56
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Re: Biblical ...ethics.



Alpha Centauri wrote:

oftheFather8,

1. First off, no one gets kicked out of this board unless they THEMSELVES provide adequate reasons for that; much less we (the administration team) use to "make reasons" for banning a member. Like I've said before good will is what our members will find in here...

2. I understand that in your passionate effort to make people listen to what you say, you may not be totally aware of how your sayings might sound to other people... As a third party, let me tell you that an "I'm hollier than thou" attitude IS present in your posts more often than not, even if you do not intent it to be this way, or even if you are completely unaware of your posts being read this way by other members...

3. Addi30 (being a member of the administration team here) commented on your posts in her aforesaid moderator's capacity, and NOT as a member of this board simply participating in a debate. In other words she IS entitled to address you personally in trying to pinpoint that the above "I'm hollier than thou" attitude (which, like I said, you, yourself, might not even be aware of) does affect other members' feelings and/or reactions, therefore it should be -by all means- avoided... It goes without saying that Addi30's post should NOT be considered as a personal attack to you, nor is it based upon her agreeing or disagreeing with your views, but rather as a moderator's action to prevent possible misunderstandings between you and other members...

Think about it...

Thanx.

PS: BTW: It would be much more convenient for you and the other members here, and it would very much benefit the overall readability of your posts, if you did NOT quote the WHOLE content of a thread in order to answer (like you use to do), but rather quote ONLY the parts relevant to your upcoming answer.



Many times in reading posts on this board, members come off with an holier than thou attitude, even you Alpha, but I attributed it to being confident about what a person believes. For instance, when you posted and it seemed to me that you were implying that I was primitive- earth flat thing.

Ahlyssah said some things on some of her posts that were angrily directed to me, but I knew she was passionate about what she believed. I didn't get angry with her for her remarks, because I knew that she may not agree with me, and that I may not agree with her. Many times we may not understand what the other person is tring to say until we continue talking.

I like JK. I like his spunk. I like talking to him. I like discussing things with all of you. That is why I come back to this site and talk, because we agree to disagree, and sometimes we do agree on certain issues.

On other boards, as soon as you say something that doesn't agree with the owners and administrators, especially on "christian" sites--you get the boot. That isn't how it is supposed to be. If I tell a person what the Father says and thinks about a certain thing--is that nasty? When I read the Father's judgments and apply them to myself, my flesh wants to deny it, but my spiritual man says--yea, you did that, and that, and that--repent and put your flesh in subjection to the Judgments of your Father. I don't always like what the Scriptures say about me because I, through the flesh, do not want to perceive myself as doing or being that. But I know within me that what the Scriptures said applied to me, so I humble myself and confess my sins.

Now, there are certain things of the Father's judgments that I don't do, and there are many that do apply. When I read HIs judgments and think about my thoughts or actions according to what the Father likes or dislikes, I must admit when I have faltered, even if my flesh doesn't want to.

The flesh, upon correction, thinks all of the Father's judgments are cruel. The truth of the Word cuts as a two edged sword dividing between what is Spiritual, which the Father works through, and what is of the flesh, what satan works through. When I read the Word, I am cut- and my flesh is wounded, but my inner man, my spiritual man is strenthened and made stronger over my flesh because of the truth--therefore, I read, and apply the Word to me first, whether my flesh doesn't like it or not.

16/Oct/04, 17:57 Link to this post Email   PM  Blog
 
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Re: Biblical ...ethics.



ofthe Father8 wrote:

 Does it matter that I am offended by your words? I wasn't trying to disrespect JK, and no matter how many times I say that, it never gets heard. Just more mean words from you and threatenings.



I know that you were not trying to disrespect me, at lease not purposefully even thought to some it may have seemed so, maybe even accidentally. I if I didn't acknowledge it earlier, I am acknowledging that now. As far as "mean words" I don't think I did that (just referencing) but if I did, I'll be the first to apologize.



JK didn't seem to be offended. I think he knew and understood what I was trying to say. I didn't say--JK you are arrogant. I made a statement and let JK consider whether the statement applied to him or not. He said are you saying that I am arrogant, and if you are, how am I arrogant. I never said, yes you are arrogant. I gave him some illustrations that he could think about and compare with himself to see if he may have been in that same situation. I wanted him to reflect on himself, and then make his own judgment. He found that those things did not apply to him, so that was it. Why don't we ask JK if he was offended, so that he may answer for himself.



And, no I wasn't offended. when I was offended by something you said, your use of pagan, I spoke up and let you know, but also asked for a reference to Why you used it that way so as to better understand whether it was being used generically or maliciously. Which we established. If I had been offended again, then I would have let you know like before.



He didn't, as far as my knowledge, say that what I said was nasty or complain to you guys, or say to me that I had hurt him. For example, he told me that the word pagan offended him, and I told him that I would use something else. But he did not tell me that I had offended him again, YOU did. If he was offended, and didn't understand what I was trying to say, I think he would have told me. JK probably knows that I wasn't trying to diss him, because he has, and one time, been in this same religion himself, and left it.



You're right, if I didn't understand what you were trying to say, then I would have asked you, either personally through pm, or here on a post. And once again, I'm pretty sure that, at least not purposefully, you don't set out to diss people or their belief in their..uh..belief.



I like JK. I like his spunk. I like talking to him. I like discussing things with all of you. That is why I come back to this site and talk, because we agree to disagree, and sometimes we do agree on certain issues.



I think I've pretty much addressed this in my post, e.g. I'm having fun, but I also enjoy our debates and conversations. And while we may not agree on god, his belief system or even the validity of his existence, I'm sure that what we would agree on far outweighs these and any other things we disagree on.

Anyways, just thought I'd add my thoughts to this since I am involved, and occasionally being referenced to like I am a defenseless child no less (j/k,well, kind of, emoticon) And just in case its not apparently obvious to the casual reader, I am defending F8 here. But, that being said, I think we should move on to the discussion again.


Last edited by:
JkdssjKaos, 17/Oct/04, 19:54


---
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Re: Biblical ...ethics.


That was not a threat, nor were those "mean" words. This isn't just about jk. This is about referring to other groups blanketly as "unclean." This is about referring to other members negatively when they fail to agree with your point. Repeatedly. Including moderators.

As a moderator of this board, it is my job to make you aware of the rules when you cross the line, which you have done in several instances. Neither this issue, nor others involving staff action, are up for debate.

The rules of this board are quite clear and available for you to read thoroughly. I have no intention of wasting other members time discussing this with you further on open board.

---
To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Biblical ...ethics.



addi30 wrote:

ofthe Father8 wrote:They are not faithful to the Father because the Father said that they must accept His Son, and many haven't.


And the "Father" said nothing of the sort.


He did, according to the Christian religion. It is mentioned in the story of Jesus' baptism, in the Bible. emoticon

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17/Oct/04, 17:37 Link to this post PM 
 
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Re: Biblical ...ethics.


oftheFather8,

I think that both addi30 and I have clearly explained our views and suggestions about possible issues that might arise when talking about religion and how possible misunderstandings could (and should) be avoided. I really do not see any reason why you should be offended by such suggestions nor why should you decide to continue debating about it... I, for one, consider this issue closed.

And, no!... No one has to watch the "watchers". The proverbial "watchers" have put so much time and effort when building this place, therefore they are entitled to run it according to their best judgement (being mature and pretty reasonable persons at that).

It's as simple as that.

Thanx.


Last edited by:
Alpha Centauri, 17/Oct/04, 19:38


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17/Oct/04, 19:29 Link to this post PM 
 
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Re: Biblical ...ethics.


This looks interesting I want to explore here awhile
12/Nov/05, 3:59 Link to this post Email   PM 
 
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Re: Biblical ...ethics.


I assure you, my dear, it is.

Welcome to the board!! emoticon

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There are things which Man can not understand. For everything else, there's a lie.

Let's see if we can't get to the truth of the matter, hmm?

'Lyssa was here . . . and she'll be back
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