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Ahlyssah
Senior Member
Registered: 07-2004
Location: Lost in a dream of mirrors
Posts: 830
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Re: Does God have free will?...
WCWriter wrote:
Please Lyssa, you are taking me a bit too literally. I say that just to take the edge off, we are sometimes way too serious with our opinions regarding God. The bible itself says no man can truly understand the mind of God. A debate of this nature must remain good natured because if it doesn't we end up with hatred, vengeance, murder, and war as a result. Remember: more death annd destruction has been perpetrated in the name of God than any other battle or war ever fought. I am sorry again if I offend, I am just old enough to know how upset folks can get when you discuss religion or politics and your view doesn't precisely the truth that they believe in.
Oops, looks like you're taking ME a bit too seriously. Sorry if that came out sounding rather harsh; kinda hard to add emotion to online posts. I am in no way offended by your post. And you are absolutely right: people are too steadfast in their opinions. Not that it's a terrible thing to be so passionate about one's feelings, but as we all know, minds are like parachutes; they only function when open.
--- There are things which Man can not understand. For everything else, there's a lie.
Let's see if we can't get to the truth of the matter, hmm?
'Lyssa was here . . . and she'll be back
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24/Oct/04, 20:04
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Loud G
Senior Member
Registered: 01-2005
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 273
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Re: Does God have free will?...
Alpha Centauri wrote:
You're right, David!!! That's the way it oughta be... I can see it now... But... given all that... what is mankind -in such case- supposed to be, anyway? Kinda "divine" experiment???
Well, I'm glad you brought that up Alpha :)
Yes, God has free will. Free will is the name of the game with God's creations. He will not force anyone to do anything they do not of themselves want to do. Nor will He do anything He does not want to do.
We were all created by God and lived with him as spirits before coming to this earth. Jesus was the first-born of God's spirit children. Lucifer (another one of His children) became jealous and power hungry, he did not understand the plan God had for His children (nor probably cared to understand).
God wanted His children to become like Him. So he created an Earth to test us. Since it is hard to see what a child will do with his life while still living with his parents, He set us loose. It is not an divine experiment so much as a divine school. We are here to learn to be like Him. To learn to act as He would. Non-selfishly. For the greater good.
He knew there had to be opposition in all things, that is why he allowed Satan to bring evil to the world through the free will of others. The people he tempted caused evil.
Our first parents (Adam and Eve) were placed here and Satan sought to defy God's plan by making them mortal. But he played right into God's hand unwittingly. God knew this would happen and had provided a Savior, from before the world was, to redeem man of his sins, if he would only repent and follow Christ.
The spiritual battle that began with the rebellion of Satan continues today. It is not a battle of swords and armies, but of ideas and truths.
In the end God will win the battle, once His full purpose has been carried out. Then those who did well will return to become like the Father. Those who did not will progress no further.
Satan uses small bits of truth mixed with lies to decieve God's children. This is why there can be found some amount of truth in every religion. But none of them (except God's) have all the truth. They attempt to answer eternity's great questions but are flawed by human corruption. This has been the way of Satan since the beginning. If he told out and out lies, none would believe him, so he must lace his lies with a glimmer of truth.
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24/Mar/05, 19:58
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Ahlyssah
Senior Member
Registered: 07-2004
Location: Lost in a dream of mirrors
Posts: 830
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Re: Does God have free will?...
No, Loud G, He did not give US commandments; he gave the Israelites commandments. The rest of the world was left coughing in the dust. It's like the old story of the lord who named his eldest son as his heir, and showered him with gifts while the younger son was neglected and abused. You can't pick favorites and expect everyone to follow you with equal enthusiasm. If the story of the commandments is true, however (and I do honestly doubt its validity), then this DOES prove that God hass free will; he chose which group of people he wanted saved, and which groups he saw fit for damnation.
Okay, maybe that's a bit harsh. But it does indeed show signs of a deliberate decision. It also shows that God possessed the ability for contempt, and maybe even hate, and that's a very high level of thinking. So, I'd have to say yes to the free-will question.
--- There are things which Man can not understand. For everything else, there's a lie.
Let's see if we can't get to the truth of the matter, hmm?
'Lyssa was here . . . and she'll be back
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6/Apr/05, 21:36
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David Meadows
Senior Member
Registered: 09-2003
Posts: 390
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Re: Does God have free will?...
Loud G wrote:
The descendents of Noah split into Three Groups Africa, Asia and Europe. Basically. The Americas were populated later.
The only one who kept the commandments was Japheth (from whom Europe and Muslims descended)
It seems a rather harsh way to treat 75% of the world's population.
Fair enough for those original descendents of Noah who turned their back on God and went off to Asia - it was their choice so they deserved all they got from their inferior, no-way-to-salvation religions.
But what about their sons, who didn't have a choice? And their sons? And theirs? And the next N generations who never had the choice of hearing God's word, until European missionaries finally got over there? Must they be punished for the sins of thier distant ancestors?
I don't think God would be that cruel and capricious. I think he gave them an alternative. Their fathers hadn't taken the religion of the Israelites with them, so God allowed other religions - Hinduism, Buddhism, and so on - to be just as valid ways to salvation. It was the only way for Him to be fair to people who, through no fault of their own, were not able to hear His word.
Last edited by: David Meadows, 20/Apr/05, 0:04
--- Reading without thinking will confuse you.
Thinking without reading will place you in danger.
-- Confucius, Spring and Autumn Period
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20/Apr/05, 0:03
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Ahlyssah
Senior Member
Registered: 07-2004
Location: Lost in a dream of mirrors
Posts: 830
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Re: Does God have free will?...
I spy a conflict here . . .
Let's suppose that, at the end of the world, God does reveal himself to all of mankind. Now, if by the acts of disgruntled priests and opinionated scribes, the Bible and all other holy books are packed with false information (I'm not saying this is certain, only likely IMO). How would humans, including all the old fashioned "God-fearing Christians" react? In the most probable scenario, most Bible-thumbers will, by the very nature of their religious sects, reject the real God as a manisfestation of Satan, and go on having the utmost faith in the God they were taught, by their parents, clergy, and the Bible, in which to believe.
Who then, in that case, would actually make it into Heaven? Would it simply be all the so-called "Christians" who know the Bible by heart, yet still commit crimes and can't discern the true Lord when he comes up and taps them on the shoulder? Or will it be the people who maybe have previously thought differently about the existence of God, or worshipped other Gods, but were still in general really good people? I guess we'll have to wait until the Second Coming to answer that one . . .
--- There are things which Man can not understand. For everything else, there's a lie.
Let's see if we can't get to the truth of the matter, hmm?
'Lyssa was here . . . and she'll be back
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21/Apr/05, 21:13
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David Meadows
Senior Member
Registered: 09-2003
Posts: 390
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Re: Does God have free will?...
Ahlyssah wrote:
So, all that, "Repent now or you're going to HELL!" stuff you hear all the time is rubbish, eh?
Pretty much, yes. In fact, it's basically a heresy (if you confess your sins and ask for forgiveness, you're denying the truth that Christ already died to forgive them).
--- "The Spirit that guides you, follow it through.
To the Spirit inside you, always be true."
--Tony Clarkin, The Spirit.
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30/Apr/05, 0:34
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Ahlyssah
Senior Member
Registered: 07-2004
Location: Lost in a dream of mirrors
Posts: 830
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Re: Does God have free will?...
Loud G wrote:
But in order to accept that sacrifice He Does require that we repent for each sin. Each unrepented sin is like a slap in the face, saying "HA! You died, and I sinned, but who cares!"
Actually, there are quite a few people I can think about right now that would do something like that.
Ahlyssa: Notice, those who are given truth and light are held to a higher standard than those who have less truth and light. The more you get the more is expected of you.
True, but that's somewhat parallel to the expectation that those with power will use it for good, and we've seen THAT flunk pretty hard in the past century.
--- There are things which Man can not understand. For everything else, there's a lie.
Let's see if we can't get to the truth of the matter, hmm?
'Lyssa was here . . . and she'll be back
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8/May/05, 18:54
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