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TimMurphy Profile
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Registered: 09-2005
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Re: Quotes from the America Taliban



Ahlyssah wrote:
 Then again, I'm a novelist, so my definition of love is rather extreme.



This got me thinking...I had a Psychology professor who spoke about love very extensively. He defined love as, "Thinking, feeling and acting towards self and others in ways that promote growth." In other words, if you love someone, your actions towards them should be growthful in some manner--you act with their best interests at heart. He also said the "fundamental human dynamic is that of the longing for love, vs. the fear of losing love." In other words, we desperately want to be loved, but at the same time, are all terrified of the pain that comes with losing it. I think this ties in greatly with the decline of marriage...people want to be loved, so they get married. However, they are so afraid of being hurt, that they don't give themselves up emotionally, don't truly act in a loving matter towards their husband/wife. This leads to bitterness, people seeking love elsewhere (and, very often, confusing sex with true emotional love), thus causing marriages to deflate.

That was his theory, anyway. Personally, I think it makes sense. I like it.

25/Oct/05, 3:47 Link to this post Email   PM 
 
Ahlyssah Profile
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I wanted to add this to my last post, but I had to go to class:

I think that there is an underlying meaning to the push for homosexual marriage. Symbolically, one could interpret this as an attack on the fundamental meaning of "marriage". Or maybe I just pay too much attention in English 101. emoticon

---
There are things which Man can not understand. For everything else, there's a lie.

Let's see if we can't get to the truth of the matter, hmm?

'Lyssa was here . . . and she'll be back
25/Oct/05, 4:14 Link to this post Email   PM  AIM  Blog
 
Procrastinating Blastula Profile
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posticon It's good to be bad!


     Hello, I've been gone a while. I've missed you all. But anyway, to anwer your question of -do I think homosexuals are entitled to "equal rights?"- In every way yes EXCEPT marrage. The life-style is immoral and violates a few thousand years of tradition. If you think I'm insensitive, too bad. Obviously I can't presuade you to see it in mine and the few million other American's eyes. The definition of democracy is "a government by the people; especially: rule of MAJORITY..." Its not that difficult, and if you want to call me a fascist for wanting majority rule, go ahead, but the truth is I'm a true democrat.
18/Nov/05, 23:06 Link to this post Email   PM 
 
TimMurphy Profile
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It's a shame, then, that is America is not, never was, and never has been, a democracy. We're a representative republic. It's what we always have been. But, most importantly, we are a nation who's government is defined and limited by the constitution.

I certainly understand exactly what you are saying. It is against tradition, and is not what marriage has been for thousands of years. You believe it to be immoral--which is fine. Show me a legal precedent. Show me where in the constitution it defines morality, and grants the government the right to protect morality, and I'll concede. If you can't, then any law banning gay marriage does not pass the constitutional test, unless you can get 2/3 of the people in this country to ratify an amendment to the constitution. That's the beauty of it...it can be changed, but it ain't easy.

All the debate that has gone on in this thread "is homosexuality a choice" "is it moral" "is this the will of the majority" is completely irrelevant. We can argue about that stuff 'till the cows come home, and with no clear outcome (nor should we have one...it isn't a cut-and-dry issue. People have different opinions). It all comes down to the legality of the thing. Passing a law that bans gay marriage ain't legal, because it means that government benefits granted to married couples (tax breaks) are NOT extended to homosexual citizens. That is discrimination. Period.
19/Nov/05, 1:32 Link to this post Email   PM 
 
Ahlyssah Profile
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Procrastinating Blastula wrote:

     Hello, I've been gone a while. I've missed you all. But anyway, to anwer your question of -do I think homosexuals are entitled to "equal rights?"- In every way yes EXCEPT marrage. The life-style is immoral and violates a few thousand years of tradition. If you think I'm insensitive, too bad. Obviously I can't presuade you to see it in mine and the few million other American's eyes. The definition of democracy is "a government by the people; especially: rule of MAJORITY..." Its not that difficult, and if you want to call me a fascist for wanting majority rule, go ahead, but the truth is I'm a true democrat.



Well, if you want to put it that way, it was also a tradition to keep women in the house and silent in church. It was a tradition that if you had any unusual birthmarks or moles that you were burned as a witch. Then again, those are only CHRISTIAN religions, and believe it or not, folks, the US is NOT a Christian country, no matter what the government says. Some Native American tribes consider homosexuality a gift from the gods. There are some groups that consider gay men as the ultimate man--holding sway over women and men both. And, sweetie, those groups have been in practice waaaaaaaay longer than Christians have. To deny them the right to hold their beliefs as they see fit, just because you think yours are more important, is arrogant, subversive, and petty. Yes, I know how rude that is.

And as for the "choice" argument, I can't help but wonder: how many of you straight people, at around the time of puberty, made a conscious decision to only be attraced to members of the opposite sex? Anyone?

---
There are things which Man can not understand. For everything else, there's a lie.

Let's see if we can't get to the truth of the matter, hmm?

'Lyssa was here . . . and she'll be back
19/Nov/05, 8:01 Link to this post Email   PM  AIM  Blog
 
Loud G Profile
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Ahlyssah wrote:
And as for the "choice" argument, I can't help but wonder: how many of you straight people, at around the time of puberty, made a conscious decision to only be attraced to members of the opposite sex? Anyone?





Again you assume that choice means choosing to be gay. Or that it means one choice made at a specific time instead of many small choices building up to an end result.

I for one did choose to be attracted to the opposite sex. I made that choice many times throughout my life. I can certainly see the options available and know that the body is capable of being attracted to a stump if the juices are flowing right. I am convinced the body could swing any way but that our minds/spirits guide it toward our chosen (whether conscious or not) destination.

Whether it is a choice or not is not the issue though.

I for one would support "government benefits granted" to all people regardless of whatever because that is what the govt is designed to do.

But the true question is this: Should we give out benefits for being married or not.

If we took out the benefits issue this would be less a political issue and more a moral one.

I am torn as to the correct path. This, as Tim has pointed out, is not an easy issue. Both extreme want to see it as a black and white issue.

I think homosexual behavior is wrong. Bad for society as a whole, etc. but I also believe in treating all people with love, respect, and equality under the govt.

I admire homosexuals for the people they are, though I dispise their actions. This is true of how I feel about a lot of people, not just gays.

Marriage was given of God. (Deny if you like, that is my deeply held belief) He created it when he created Adam and Eve.

I realize that not all share this belief, depite it being true. Which is why we have this discussion :)

The true christian way is to embrace the sinner, but make no excuse for the sin they commit, nor urge them to continue, but allow them their free agency and love them despite what they choose to do with it.

That is why I personally think that the benefits should be given across the board because that is the govts. job, but that the marriage part should be left alone.

Their are many disagreements. Which is why I believe we must find a comprimise like the one I have suggested. Not rewarding either party for their sexual behavior, but rewarding them for being hard working american citizens.

---
Writing: Eriadhin

19/Nov/05, 18:34 Link to this post Email   PM  AIM  Blog
 
TimMurphy Profile
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Loud G wrote:

But the true question is this: Should we give out benefits for being married or not.



Ah...and here we hit on the true root of the subject. That's more the question, to me, than anything else. If you make marriage a strictly religious union (which, Loud G, I agree with you it is), and have government butt out completely, the entire issue goes away (from a legality standpoint). Those that want to recognize it do, and those who don't do not. The government stays out of it, and we're free to live our lives.


19/Nov/05, 20:52 Link to this post Email   PM 
 
Ahlyssah Profile
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I meant a conscious decision. As in, you once thought to yourself as you were growing up, "Hmmm, I think that I should prefer the appearance of girls over boys." It's like making a decision to fall in love. You don't look at someone and say, "Well, she looks pretty. I think I will fall in love with her, without knowing anything about her personality, likes, and how bad her breath is first thing in the morning." Attraction comes on slower than that, and for the most part no one notices it until Mr. Happy gives a Victoria's Secret bilboard a standing ovation.

I don't know at this point. It's like I said to PB: this is YOUR personal opinion, not necessarily what the rest of the world thinks. I'm glad you hold so much conviction in your life philosophy. Me, I'm all for being proven wrong. That's how we learn. If God himself appears to me and says that homosexual activity is wrong, I will A) convert and B) stop advocating rights for gay people. And this is kinda harsh, but unless YOU get a direct transmission from the Lord, I can't agree that strong conviction is enough to prove you are right.

---
There are things which Man can not understand. For everything else, there's a lie.

Let's see if we can't get to the truth of the matter, hmm?

'Lyssa was here . . . and she'll be back
20/Nov/05, 2:23 Link to this post Email   PM  AIM  Blog
 
Loud G Profile
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Oh, believe me, I've had it. I do not treat this subject or any religious subject lightly, or without study, prayer, etc.

---
Writing: Eriadhin

20/Nov/05, 20:24 Link to this post Email   PM  AIM  Blog
 
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Just to add something to what Ahlyssah was saying earlier, the anchient Greeks who were considered the pinacle of modern society considered homosexuality to be a sign of the aristocracy. To be homosexual was a sign of intelligence and and class this idea was destroyed by the dominance of christianity and catholicism. A young man in the upper class would generally have relations with older man and be taken under his wing. Some of the greatest Greek heros had Homosexual tendencies, Herakles(Hercules), and the god of wisdom himself Apollo, and even the king of the gods Zeus was attracted to young men.
Do some research on the topic the myths are very interesting.

---

22/Nov/05, 22:25 Link to this post Email   PM 
 


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