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Generalley Cool Profile
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a thought of mine on Gods actions


ok, i must start out by saying, more and more, latly, i have started beliving in god. the way i see it, if you look at the univierse, at everything in it, from the largest and most amasingly beautiful star systems to an eye that is so amasingly complex, its hard to belive that it all happened from an explosion.
i know people say that it took gazzilions of years and all, but even then, it still seems SO unlikly.

my personal view is that there was more than likly a big bang, however god started it, and from the moment he started he helped the universe develop. i dont think of him as the defining force, and i dont think of him as non-existant. more ike a gardener, who starts things growing and helps them along the way.



so. one of the main things ive heard about is the problem of evil: the idea that if God is all -knowing, -loving and -powerfull, then he surly wouldnt let bad things happen.

so a while ago i was thinking about this. i came to the conclusion that, presuming there IS life after death, what if God is killing theese people off through wars, hurricanes, etc, but sending them, where apropriate, to heaven, or at any rate, a better place.
the reason he is taking them, is to try and get the rest of the worlds act together, to try and make them see bad things and make them go in the right dircetion.

so looking at it this way, s/he isnt being evil, but trying to make the majority better people.

im not saying its RIGHT theese people should die, im saying that if we were better as a race, they may not have to...

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9/Dec/05, 3:21 Link to this post PM  ICQ  MSN  Blog
 
Alpha Centauri Profile
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Re: a thought of mine on Gods actions


Hmmmm... Here's some food for thought:

Generalley Cool wrote:
... is so amasingly complex, its hard to belive that it all happened from an explosion.

Complex to whom? What may seem complex according to our fallible standards, may not be so complex according to cosmic standards after all... Imagine how complex the lightning and thunder phenomena might have been to primitive people... So what? is still the lightning and thunder a complex thing for us modern people to conceive? Conclusion: Complexity is NOT an absolute! Progress is!

Generalley Cool wrote:
my personal view is that there was more than likly a big bang, however god started it,

If we just NEED to establish a creator of everything, the next question should be: who created God? It's as simply logical as that. Do I sense a vicious circle here, or what?

Generalley Cool wrote:
the reason he is taking them, is to try and get the rest of the worlds act together, to try and make them see bad things and make them go in the right dircetion. im not saying its RIGHT theese people should die, im saying that if we were better as a race, they may not have to...

You mean to say that Adolf Hitler, or Attila the Hun, or Josef Stalin were God's tools for making a better world? Not a chance! The world would HAVE been a better place if these "tools" had never existed in the first place!

emoticon emoticon

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Re: a thought of mine on Gods actions



Alpha Centuri wrote:

If we just NEED to establish a creator of everything, the next question should be: who created God? It's as simply logical as that. Do I sense a vicious circle here, or what?



We know how much you loooove those vicious circles. But still, that's a wonderful question: who DID create God? The history of God in the Bible isn't even a complete sentence! "God always was." God always was what? God always was an attentive student? God always was fond of chocolate milkshakes? I mean, sure, it's got subject/verb agreement, but it just leaves you hanging there.

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Let's see if we can't get to the truth of the matter, hmm?

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9/Dec/05, 21:46 Link to this post Email   PM  AIM  Blog
 
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Re: a thought of mine on Gods actions


You could look at it this way...that theres better things to come...........

heres some quotes from the bible.......


But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.”

"For God knows that in the very day of YOUR eating from it YOUR eyes are bound to be opened and YOU are bound to be like God, KNOWING good and bad.”


Genesis 2:17 Genesis 3:5



Adam and Eve were warned but didnt listen and they were cast out of the garden of Eden where they had previously lived in paradise, a life of luxury with no worries or wants or desires for earthly things at all...

The bible foretells all of the suffering of man in the world after that, the raging wars in many of its chapters, the suffering of mankind and portrays Armageddon as a cleansing agent to make way for a new world free from evil.



"But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell." 2 Peter 3:13




"and the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,
And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace"



So God is not really allowing these thing to happen, he warned his children that they would, he graced them with free will and they chose to ignore him.. and we now bear the consequences of that decision to rebel...now as foretold in the bible we have to wait until the end of days..read revelations.. emoticon


Thats just my religious opinion. I have other opinions on suffering and the end of the world that are not based on religion..
 emoticon


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10/Dec/05, 18:23 Link to this post Email   PM 
 
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Re: a thought of mine on Gods actions



Bondgirly wrote:
So God is not really allowing these thing to happen, he warned his children that they would, he graced them with free will and they chose to ignore him..

I can't but quote John Milton (character played by Al Pacino in "The Devil's Advocate" movie):

Let me give you a little inside information about God. God likes to watch. He's a prankster. Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift, and then what does he do, I swear for his own amusement, his own private, cosmic gag reel, he sets the rules in opposition. It's the goof of all time. Look but don't touch. Touch, but don't taste. Taste, but don't swallow. Ha!. And while you're jumpin' from one foot to the next, what is he doing? He's laughin' his sick, fuckin' ass off. He's a tight-ass. He's a sadist. He's an absentee landlord.

These words always come to my mind every time the "God and free will" issue is brought up... I mean, it's like: You are granted the right to vote for A or B, but should you vote for B, not only will your vote not be counted for, but you'll also be eternally condemned... What kind of a "civil right" would THAT be?

emoticon emoticon emoticon emoticon


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Re: a thought of mine on Gods actions


LOL..Your right there..and in some religions you feel it more.. Dont Catholicism and damned if you do damned if you dont go hand in hand??? I have to say I'm not Catholic so dont quote me on that! emoticon

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Re: a thought of mine on Gods actions


I never understood how this "you are free to do as I command, or else..." thingie could possibly be called "free will". I consider this sort of biblical "free will" to be the biggest misnomer ever (not to mention deceit)...

emoticon

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10/Dec/05, 23:00 Link to this post PM 
 
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Re: a thought of mine on Gods actions


Dont get me going on deceit... I'm still coming to terms with the hype surrounding the Davinci Code..(fiction but with fact in the storyline) that the bible is a complete lie, Jesus was married to Mary Magdelene. she bore his child and the sacred feminine was castaside. Mary was erased from many parts of Jesus's lifestory and was even portrayed as a prostitute by a church intent on male domination with male principles and values. This..if it is true has meant servitude for millions of women over the last two thousand years!!

OOOOhh gosh..I need to sit down...lol.. that was a bit of rant wasnt it..emoticon I dont know what came over me..lol

I am obviously wearing my Cosmology Hat tonight and have ranted myself into a disbeliever again for a few hours.. Are there any clouds in the sky I wonder??? emoticon

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11/Dec/05, 0:11 Link to this post Email   PM 
 
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posticon Re: a thought of mine on Gods actions


May I ask one question, could there be any fact in it that God made it look like there was a big bang and he made the universe with a history that we could discover? ? ?

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Re: a thought of mine on Gods actions


I wonder if anyone who believes the Bible to be inerrant would ask such a question, "Did God plant false evidence?"  If so, then wouldn't that either make God a liar, or at least make the Bible quite fallible?

Think about it:  If God were to plant a bunch of geological, archaological, paleontological and all sorts of other logical evidence to make the world look 4.5 billion years old and disprove the creation story, the flood story, the Jericho story, and who knows how many other stories in the Bible... If He would plant all of that evidence to make it look like we came from somewhere we didn't when He knew full well that He made all this, and us, merely 6010 years ago, then wouldn't that be just about the biggest lie anyone could tell?

Either the Bible is lying (if it's supposed to be taken literally, that is) or God is lying, and if the words in the Bible were handed down by the omnipotent, omniscient, Most High God Almighty Himself as the literal truth, then that would make Him a liar either way.

For the record, I see no need to spackle gaps of knowledge with an imaginary deity compound.  In fact it's counterproductive, because once you find a missing puzzle piece after the gap around its surrounding pieces has been thoroughly spackled, it becomes really hard to be sure if the piece would have fit.  Heh, I can speak in parables too. emoticon

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3/Apr/06, 15:13 Link to this post Email   PM  Blog
 
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Re: a thought of mine on Gods actions


Thats not what I was trying to convey. . . is it possible that God decided to create the world w/ history. I mean like Adam and Eve weren't babies they were born older. so why couldn't he have created the world w/ history? ? ?

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Re: a thought of mine on Gods actions


I don't understand what you mean. It sounds to me like you're contemplating God creating the world with "history" that never happened.

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Re: a thought of mine on Gods actions



Lesigner Girl wrote:

Either the Bible is lying (if it's supposed to be taken literally, that is) or God is lying, and if the words in the Bible were handed down by the omnipotent, omniscient, Most High God Almighty Himself as the literal truth, then that would make Him a liar either way.



Heh, don't let ashmosh catch you making blasphemous statements like that. emoticon

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There are things which Man can not understand. For everything else, there's a lie.

Let's see if we can't get to the truth of the matter, hmm?

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Re: a thought of mine on Gods actions


*looks over shoulder* emoticon

I just don't understand why some people still accept the stories as literal, inerrant history, when there is so much proof to the contrary. emoticon

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12/Apr/06, 7:32 Link to this post Email   PM  Blog
 
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Re: a thought of mine on Gods actions



Ahlyssah wrote:
But still, that's a wonderful question: who DID create God?



God was always existing, it is a mystery as to how He was never started, that He was always there and always will be there. It is far beyond the comprehension of our finite minds to be able to conceptualize such a thing. No one created God but God.


Ahlyssah wrote:
The history of God in the Bible isn't even a complete sentence! .



It is but you have to study the inner dimensions of the Bible to understand what it is saying. Remember what I said earlier about the BIble being an encoded formula that reveals and infinity of spiritual truths.


Ahlyssah wrote:"God always was." God always was what?

but it just leaves you hanging there.



God always existed. He always was there. It doesnt leave ya hanging at all... it merely explains that an impossibility was made possible.

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Re: a thought of mine on Gods actions


I'm all for acheiving the impossible, but there's still something about allways existing that kind of seemed... weird.
I guess it's like they say with the 4 dimensional cubes, that you grew up only knowing 3d, so your brain can only understand 3d, so it would be impossible to see 4d.

I still don't know where I stand on God existing, I would love to belive it, I meen, we all need something to belive in, and even the most jaded scientist has a yearning to belive in an afterlife...

I loved alphas quote, by the way, i'm gonna find a chance to use that :D

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Re: a thought of mine on Gods actions




ok, i must start out by saying, more and more, latly, i have started beliving in god. the way i see it, if you look at the univierse, at everything in it, from the largest and most amasingly beautiful star systems to an eye that is so amasingly complex, its hard to belive that it all happened from an explosion.
i know people say that it took gazzilions of years and all, but even then, it still seems SO unlikly.

my personal view is that there was more than likly a big bang, however god started it,

Yep.Undeniable.Human reason and intelligence tells us.

so. one of the main things ive heard about is the problem of evil: the idea that if God is all -knowing, -loving and -powerfull, then he surly wouldnt let bad things happen.

OK,what's the alternative?

Death entered the world with sin.
Death was the consequence of sin.
GB!~
p4p



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Re: a thought of mine on Gods actions


This is a very interesting discussion you are all having. Contemplating the existence of God can be very beneficial!!!!!

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Re: a thought of mine on Gods actions



ashmosh314 wrote:

Ahlyssah wrote:
But still, that's a wonderful question: who DID create God?


God was always existing, it is a mystery as to how He was never started, that He was always there and always will be there. It is far beyond the comprehension of our finite minds to be able to conceptualize such a thing. No one created God but God.



I've always found this an unsatisfying answer. Basically, we're saying: "God must have always existed because we can't comprehend how he could have come into existance otherwise." That's fine, I suppose, as long as we realize that it's a statement of our ignorance rather than our knowledge.

However, using this ignorance of God's origin as proof (or suggestion) that God doesn't exist is as illogical as using it as proof that God DOES exist! As evidence, consider a universe that has no God. It was created by the standard physics that we've learned about, somewhere around 15 billion years ago. If there was no God and no anything else before the "big bang", then what started the universe? The obvious answer is: "The Universe must have always existed because we can't comprehend how it could have come into existance otherwise."

Which, you might note, is exactly the same as the God quote above, with "God" changed the "the Universe". Neither position has any more proof than the other on this issue -- neither really understands what happened then. One could even say that "the Universe" and "God" are really two names for the same thing -- the thing that started it all, for a reason we don't understand, in a manner we don't understand.

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Re: a thought of mine on Gods actions


The beauty of the entire "concept" of God is that it cant' be explained logically.

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Re: a thought of mine on Gods actions



PlatinumRaider wrote:
The beauty of the entire "concept" of God is that it cant' be explained logically.



True, but neither can a purely-scientific explanation of the beginning of the universe at this point. :)

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Re: a thought of mine on Gods actions


If everything could be explained where would we get "imagination", "critical thinking" and all that makes the mind what it is????

I'm just one of those people who loves to ponder the possibilities and am not dismayed by not having an "answer" that is concrete. I try to keep my "linear" thinking in check as much as possible. It makes for a very stale personality.

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Re: a thought of mine on Gods actions


People, generally speaking try to anthropomorphize God and that's when the confusion begins.

Once that proverbial pandora's box is opened, their is literally no way out!!!

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Re: a thought of mine on Gods actions



PlatinumRaider wrote:
If everything could be explained where would we get "imagination", "critical thinking" and all that makes the mind what it is????

I'm just one of those people who loves to ponder the possibilities and am not dismayed by not having an "answer" that is concrete. I try to keep my "linear" thinking in check as much as possible. It makes for a very stale personality.



Ah, but logical thinking and rationality is not necessarily "linear" thinking, though it does look for one (or a limited set of) "correct" answers at all times, and throws out the rest as "wrong". As an engineer, I can assure you that often, finding the truth involves as much imagination -- and more critical thinking -- than merely debating what MIGHT be.


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lol.......No offense, but you sound like an engineer. I live with an electrical engineer, my girlfriend!!!!!!!

We won't debate that issue. Critical thinking can be very imaginitive!!!!!

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Re: a thought of mine on Gods actions


Looking for "one" or a "limited set" of correct answers, and the emphasis here is on "correct", sounds pretty linear to me, but hey, we all do things the way we see fit.

Like I said, I live with an engineer and I have these discussions as little as possible. Not saying engineers don't have imagination. But they have a tendency to fall heavily on what is "concrete" and their is so much in life that is "not" concrete, that is beyond the realm of reason, quantification and analysis.

Some things have to be felt, be intuitive and spontaneous. Not a well contrived equation. That's boring for Gods sake. No pun intended, wink!!!!!

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I knew a girl who, during a debate on global warming, said she couldn't at all understand why people would claim that global warming wasn't happening, when all the evidence supported the opposite. Then she said that, despite that, she supported the media giving anti-global-warming people equal time as their opponents. Her theory was that, no matter how obviously incorrect an argument was, it deserved to be heard.

I can't agree with that. Mind you, I LIKE arguments and I LIKE debates -- most scientists do. Arguments and debates are all about questions, and scientists and engineers like to answer questions. But there comes a point where it's no longer a debate and merely one person spouting out untruths to the world. And that I have no patience for. Just because you "intuitively" believe something doesn't mean it's right -- we've all taken intuitive leaps that have led us nowhere sometimes!

Intuition is GOOD. It's a wonderful starting place! Intuition is what makes scientific research possible (as well as many, many other joyous things). But intuition can't be the end of the thinking pipeline. Somewhere, we need to pull out the pruners and say, "Well, this was a cool idea, but it really doesn't fit with how the world really works." That's the job of a scientist/engineer. To use intuition to dream big -- and then to use concrete logic to restrain those dreams to the possible.

I don't see that as linear. I see it as a tree of ideas, with a fine gardener pruning the branches so that those would have been too weak to bear fruit are chopped back, and those that are strong enough to support themselves against the world can grow.


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Well said!!!!!!!!!

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By the way, when I use the word "intuition" it has nothing to do with "thinking". I don't view intuition as a cognitive attribute. It goes beyond that for me. Also, you used intuition and "dream" in the same sentence. I don't do that either.

I understand what your saying but your confusing how I'm using the word "intuition".

For "me" intuition goes beyond thinking and has nothing to do with dreaming. It's instinctive, it's pure, but when the mind becomes involved it becomes skewed with "rational analysis" and reasoning, which is why so few people follow their intuition. How many times do people say they had a "gut" feeling about something? And 99% of the time, that gut feeling was/is correct. That is what I'm talking about.

This has nothing to do with global warming and whether a persons argument is valid or not or whether if it's invalid they deserve the opportunity to express an erroneous point of view lacking in facts and research(though i know you are using that as a parallel).

Nor is intuition an "idea". I'm using the word in a completely different "context" than your post suggest.

But I do understand what you are trying to convey.

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PlatinumRaider wrote:
 How many times do people say they had a "gut" feeling about something? And 99% of the time, that gut feeling was/is correct. That is what I'm talking about.



Ah... I think that this is where the true split in our opinions differs. Nothing I've seen or experienced suggests that intuition is right 99% of the time -- or even significantly more than half of the time.

I had a neighbor in the dorms my junior year in undergrad. The first time I met her, she was wearing black lipstick, chains, and very goth clothing. My instincts (which are, after all, based on my previous experiences) told me, "Stay away from her! She's a crazy girl who's probably all messed up with drugs and bad people." That was my first impression, based solely on instinct. Then my logic kicked in and said, "Hang on! You can't just assume that! You know nothing about her! Go and talk to her and THEN make a judgment about her." I did, and she turned out to be a very nice girl who was majoring in chemistry, did no drugs, met with no strange people, and didn't even play her music overly loudly. A really nice neighbor, in other words. My instinct would not have taught me that, but my logic did.

Similarly, at work, I was recently presented with a problem to which my intuition (in layman's terms) said, "Because it's getting hotter, all the world's glaciers must be melting into the ocean." My sense of logic agreed, but more cautiously: "That's probably the case, but let's check the gravity data first and see what it tells us." In the end, it turns out that NOT all glaciers are melting into the ocean, despite what my first (intuitive) thought was.

Like I said, I see intuition as very, very valuable. It often points out things that we should be cautious of -- that's actually the biological explanation for the entire intuitive (reptilian) part of our brain, after all -- or curious about. I just don't like letting my intuition go off for long unchecked. It gets me into trouble, both in my social life and my scientific life.

I don't trust "gut feelings". I really don't. I cringe when I hear people say that they "know" that something is right because that's "what their instinct tells them". That isn't to say I think instinct is always wrong, just that it's not good to trust it without testing it with logic.

And yes, you can tell why I'm an engineer. emoticon

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  -- YAR!
6/Sep/07, 22:43 Link to this post Email   PM  AIM  MSN 
 


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